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Revision 2018 - 30. March to 2. April - Saarbrücken, Germany

category: parties [glöplog]
Some note about travelling in Saarbrooklyn:

car/cab: 10 min
public bus: 15 min
walking: 30 min
revision shuttle bus: 50 min ;o)

unfortunately no data bout plane, boat, helicopter and hoverboard yet :|
added on the 2018-04-06 02:18:20 by T$ T$
The way I see it, Shader Showdown refers specifically to the format employed by Revision. If other events want to apply different rules, that's cool too, we'll happily support them because we're very interested to see how well other formats work. Whether such a compo with different rules would make sense as a qualification round for the Shader Showdown is an open question which we'll have to answer separately for each specific format. In any case, if you're a party organizer who reads this and considers organizing some sort of livecoding related event, please drop me a line so I can figure out how to attend your event and how we'd be able to support it in practical terms. And if you're a (potential) competitor, drop me a line too please, btw :)

Concerning voting/popularity contests/etc, Shader Showdown is designed to involve the crowd as much as practically possible and therefore employs an amphitheater style of decision making. History has taught us that this method is far from a guarantee for the most objective outcomes. Of course the audiovisual aspects and stage setting of the show could have a certain influence on the crowd's decision making process. And it's also possible that certain competitors have a lot of friends in the crowd cheering for them, or countrymen who pick their side, or groupmates, many such scenarios are imaginable. But the same can apply to voting for regular demoscene compos, let's not fool ourselves, we all know namevoting is actually a thing to some degree, but we accept that because the overall outcome tends to be kindof fair despite the system's obvious imperfections. I don't see why we should treat a livecoding event much differently, of course it would be possible to put the coders behind the stage and thereby make the voting completely anonymous, but how much fun would that be?

v3nom: Thanks! I couldn't have worded it better myself- the objective is indeed to create more opportunities for livecoders, but certainly not to make it impossible for anyone to join the competition in Saarbrucken, or anywhere else for that matter :)

lesnik: I had lots of fun hanging out with you and Jacku, it was like visiting the party with old friends in many ways. So thanks for the good times! :)

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Plenty of kids got hooked as they watched the shader showdowns :)

That's just awesome, but to be really honest, hearing it no longer surprises me. There's folks signing up for the competition who are not even half my age. I watched the show with my little nephews several years now and they dig it too. Several people told me the compo inspired them to join the scene, one of them even went on to become a champion. Putting it dramatically, I think livecoding is (important for) the future of the demoscene, it's a great way to show the world what this scene is about and effectively attracting new participants/sceners. :)
added on the 2018-04-06 03:33:19 by havoc havoc
on another note, would be nice to have live drawing or 3d modelling compos too. probably not enough time on the schedule for that though...
added on the 2018-04-06 04:14:06 by psenough psenough
Had to cut two songs whose rightsholders wouldn't allow the video on YouTube, but finally managed to upload it: Enjoy some Logicoma with your morning coffee!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0Oes51P9Y
added on the 2018-04-06 07:37:28 by Steltek Steltek
Made it back home, big thanks to everyone for an amazing first Revision and first demoparty!
added on the 2018-04-06 08:18:05 by myriad myriad
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If you want to make sure that you get nothing but raymarched cauliflower, that's an awesome idea. It would put everyone at a disadvantage who wants to do something other than that specific flavor of raymarching.

Perhaps you should watch the compos you're making comments about, as this simply isn't true.
added on the 2018-04-06 09:30:46 by gloom gloom
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Popularity contest.. I'm very reluctant about calling it that.

However, it is about the performance as well as the final product. Some are better than others at showing previews during the match, teasing the audience and playing along with the show.


This. The Live Coding (and the other Live compos — we do Live Graphics and Live Music as well) at Solskogen have grown to be my personal faves. I have a great time watching talented people spin out awesomeness from nothing, as the audience watches and cheers. :)
added on the 2018-04-06 09:36:25 by gloom gloom
To get this off of my mind: for the record, I had no FFT/audio input which can easily be seen when looking at the very first seconds of the battle and comparing the default tunnels, the comment I wrote about that in my shader source code halfway through the battle remained unnoticed, but as I was told after the battle I should've just said something, so that's on me I guess...

If I didn't know better I'd agree with the twitch chat and call it #rigged

Everyone knows that I'd have been cool with loosing on a level playing field, next year I'll be back and destroy and until then I'll take each and every opportunity to show who's shading in the name of evilbot, and if there's any technical difficulties at next years shader showdown I'll call it timeout and either get them fixed or just leave the stage mid battle. My prying eyes will ensure that each and every battle is fought under the same preconditions even if that means I'll have to bring back evilbot himself and make revision a 5 day event due to the induced delay.
added on the 2018-04-06 10:06:40 by LJ LJ
We'll do the prizegiving on day six then!
added on the 2018-04-06 10:42:09 by styx^hcr styx^hcr
I can corroborate LJs statement: The station he was at had its right input channel plugged into the DJ mixer, but Bonzomatic only uses the left channel for FFT/audio and ignores the right one completely. This issue was fixed in the semi finals (all qualifiers ran with the wrong setup) and we've requested that this config be clearly documented so future showdowns don't encounter this issue again.
added on the 2018-04-06 11:31:17 by Steltek Steltek
Quote:
I can corroborate LJs statement: The station he was at had its right input channel plugged into the DJ mixer, but Bonzomatic only uses the left channel for FFT/audio and ignores the right one completely. This issue was fixed in the semi finals (all qualifiers ran with the wrong setup) and we've requested that this config be clearly documented so future showdowns don't encounter this issue again.

This is BASS taking the left channel and not mixing them in stereo. https://github.com/Gargaj/Bonzomatic/blob/master/src/platform_common/FFT.cpp#L11
Not a hard fix to combine it to stereo; will look into it.
added on the 2018-04-06 11:54:17 by Gargaj Gargaj
@Gargaj - Wondering: why not use the midi clock as well? Traktor, CDJs, Ableton whatev deliver that as well.
added on the 2018-04-06 12:26:23 by rp^frstl rp^frstl
Would enable interesting sync fuckery to take a global midi clock, run it through an internal clock divider/multiplier with a few options. And keep FFT for things like color, rotation etc?
added on the 2018-04-06 12:29:39 by rp^frstl rp^frstl
I haven't read so many comments here about the livecoding thingy, but I'd like to again express my gratitude and praise for being part of the event. Yes, I also had technical difficulties (wrong keyboard layout) but that's also on me as I had an opportunity to try stuff out after hooking up my keyboard and didn't take it, and I only lost like 30 seconds realistically when I called over the staff who were very helpful (speaking of which, they also ran over when I was waving my arms not knowing what to do next - way to be proactive!).

I've been a part of the Solskogen livecoding compo since its inception (iirc), and for me it's always been, as some others have said (and also myself while commentating the finals) that much of the competition is about interacting with the music and the audience as well as the final product. For some that doesn't appear to be the case, and that's probably ok too. But I also like to take it as an opportunity to try out new things in such a stimulating environment, which can either well or poorly or somewhere in between. Sometimes I've won, sometimes I've lost in the first round. I'd say the ratio is about the same either way. Due to this I actually find it a bit difficult to understand how it's possible to take the results very seriously, as there are so many variables and so little time per round in the first place. Naturally organic processes have naturally organic outcomes. Perhaps it's a bit different for the folks who memorize and recite something instead, and that's ok too within the format, but it's not something I can really speak about. Perhaps I'm in the minority with my viewpoint. I don't know.

For my part, starting with a raymarching setup would still be helpful and more entertaining I think. It would still allow competitors like me who don't typically use the technique the space to breathe, and would make the raymarching entries more about what they show rather than how well they've memorized the technique. For the uninitiated that may put someone doing mostly 2D stuff at a disadvantage (you can see this in some of the twitch chat comments) but to the educated demoparty audiences (who actually vote) I don't think this has been a problem; people generally know that 3D stuff isn't fundamentally harder than 2D stuff. Or perhaps I've read this entirely wrong for years now. :)

I'm getting a bit ranty now but I really like these competitions and am very happy to have been a part of it at this year's Revision. I hope I can take part again next year, even if I'm out in the first round again. :)
added on the 2018-04-06 12:37:39 by ferris ferris
side questions, may have already been discussed

many competitors in the showdown seem to finish something pretty good in ten minutes and then twitch at that really good thing in agony for most of the rest of the time . . . Is the showdown an endurance match or a race?
are the sets too long?
added on the 2018-04-06 12:41:44 by metoikos metoikos
maybe this needs its own thread?
added on the 2018-04-06 12:43:11 by metoikos metoikos
Quote:
@Gargaj - Wondering: why not use the midi clock as well? Traktor, CDJs, Ableton whatev deliver that as well.

This was discussed in the shader compo framework thread before the party, probably best to continue that part of the discussion there.
added on the 2018-04-06 13:33:48 by lug00ber lug00ber
Quote:
Not a hard fix to combine it to stereo; will look into it.
Would certainly help us not fuck it up during the stage setup. ;)
added on the 2018-04-06 13:46:26 by Steltek Steltek
Quote:
Quote:
Not a hard fix to combine it to stereo; will look into it.
Would certainly help us not fuck it up during the stage setup. ;)


I'll keep this in mind when we do our live shader compo at nova.
added on the 2018-04-06 14:07:41 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
The big Revision 2018 Animation/Video compo isn't over yet!

Introducing a new feature for Revision: The Crowd Reaction Cam! (Was meant to happen for Revision 2017 already but we lost all of our recordings when Evilbot tipped over a stack of harddrives while drunk... or so he says.)

https://youtu.be/wm3-t8CUWrw
added on the 2018-04-06 16:34:04 by Steltek Steltek
added on the 2018-04-06 16:34:45 by Steltek Steltek
Yay... More cameras. Honestly: Not a fan of it.
added on the 2018-04-06 16:47:34 by las las
Quote:
Introducing a new feature for Revision: The Crowd Reaction Cam!


Wow.. I'd be seriously pissed off if it was me being unknowingly filmed and posted to youtube like that.
best moment ofcourse being the stage invade :D

Korvkiosken: although i'm all for the right to privacy and admitedly have no clue on German laws regarding filming and public broadcasting of events: this was clearly a public event and repeatedly mentioned it would be livestreamed, plenty of cameras and mobile phones around, expecting identity privacy in such conditions is not very realistic. poo-brain did supply monkey and horse masks for anyone too concearned or drunk enough though. ;) and now, time for another rehash of the good old slengpung right to delete yourself discussion! :)
added on the 2018-04-06 18:08:37 by psenough psenough
ps: Yeah, I definitely agree that one can't really expect to avoid camera lenses at an event like that. :) My somewhat blunt reaction here was probably triggered by the long period of filming, meaning that you're "exposed" for a considerable amount of time.
But seeing as I don't even know whether this particular camera (and the subsequent publishing on youtube) was public knowledge I should keep my trap shut. :)

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