Cadence and Cascade
category: general [glöplog]
So, upon a popular request, it has become a bbs topic.. now spill your guts out guys..
Well, I liked it. I liked it very much. I said it in the comments. I realise that people who are not informed / involved in the Greek demoscene cannot understand why we like it that much.
So, I guess I'll have to explain.
The Greek scene is much smaller than in other countries. It has always been that way. When the intl. scene got confused during '97-'99 because of the massive adoption of the windows platform, 3D accelerators etc, the Greek scene almost came to a stop. Nothing was going on. Nothing at all. The last Greek demo party was held in the summer of '97 (and I had to miss it because I was in the army at the time!). So, there it is: After four (4) years of silence and dispear, a *real* demo party was held in Greece. With actual productions. With a demo that made the earth move. Not to mention with impressive and high quality gfx and music compos. With a mind blowing atmosphere. With a VIDEO PROJECTOR damn it! :-)
Digital Nexus 2001 brought fire again in the Greek scene. That's why everyone is so wild about it. I just hope the whole thing keeps up. It's not perfect yet, but at least it now has potential. Let's just hope for the best!
So, I guess I'll have to explain.
The Greek scene is much smaller than in other countries. It has always been that way. When the intl. scene got confused during '97-'99 because of the massive adoption of the windows platform, 3D accelerators etc, the Greek scene almost came to a stop. Nothing was going on. Nothing at all. The last Greek demo party was held in the summer of '97 (and I had to miss it because I was in the army at the time!). So, there it is: After four (4) years of silence and dispear, a *real* demo party was held in Greece. With actual productions. With a demo that made the earth move. Not to mention with impressive and high quality gfx and music compos. With a mind blowing atmosphere. With a VIDEO PROJECTOR damn it! :-)
Digital Nexus 2001 brought fire again in the Greek scene. That's why everyone is so wild about it. I just hope the whole thing keeps up. It's not perfect yet, but at least it now has potential. Let's just hope for the best!
And may I applaud to the fact that at least *one* country has had a major revival in demos? please? =)
I'm happy the greek scene has had their vitamin shot, and their nationality voting is quite understandable for that matter.
Their blind enthousiasm by plugging it by all means possible in pouet.net may trigger bad feelings.
But dear greeks, these reactions are quite feasible, really: let's not forget the upvoting by the french for some prods that were questionable by copyright or quality.
Kudos for being back on your feet, just don't let the rasmus bite you on the way back =)
I'm happy the greek scene has had their vitamin shot, and their nationality voting is quite understandable for that matter.
Their blind enthousiasm by plugging it by all means possible in pouet.net may trigger bad feelings.
But dear greeks, these reactions are quite feasible, really: let's not forget the upvoting by the french for some prods that were questionable by copyright or quality.
Kudos for being back on your feet, just don't let the rasmus bite you on the way back =)
We (greeks) are a tad flamehearted on such issues so I wouldn't be surprised If I saw a great flame going on about that particular demo. But it will be fun to watch. The very interesting thing here though, is the enthusiasm of all the greek demogroups being very supportive towards ASD's production as if it was their own.
And that is what I've been expecting to see. The greek demoscene was there silent. Almost breathless.. so someone had to make the big step and make something that can stand out. And what is more important, is to see if this move will motivate all the other greek sceners to start producing. It wasn't only that we produced low-quality demos.. no.. on the contrary.. dEUS back at 96 showed everyone that greeks could do a fine job. The splinter in the foot was that absolutely nothing was produced. Not even mods..
So I will take a deep breath of satisfaction.. seeing that the greek scene rises again.. AND that people from around the world take the time to download, watch the demo and even add their opinion about it.. even if it is not a praising one.
The important thing towards the other sceners, as you stated shifter, is that we try to make a point. That we are picking up the pieces and reconstructing our scene.. having Byterapper's Hyperventilation message giving us strength. We cried watching that demo.. we understand what they are trying to say.. We feel nice in the demoscene and we intend to keep on doing so.
SOS
And that is what I've been expecting to see. The greek demoscene was there silent. Almost breathless.. so someone had to make the big step and make something that can stand out. And what is more important, is to see if this move will motivate all the other greek sceners to start producing. It wasn't only that we produced low-quality demos.. no.. on the contrary.. dEUS back at 96 showed everyone that greeks could do a fine job. The splinter in the foot was that absolutely nothing was produced. Not even mods..
So I will take a deep breath of satisfaction.. seeing that the greek scene rises again.. AND that people from around the world take the time to download, watch the demo and even add their opinion about it.. even if it is not a praising one.
The important thing towards the other sceners, as you stated shifter, is that we try to make a point. That we are picking up the pieces and reconstructing our scene.. having Byterapper's Hyperventilation message giving us strength. We cried watching that demo.. we understand what they are trying to say.. We feel nice in the demoscene and we intend to keep on doing so.
SOS
ASD rulez! As i said is the best piece of art ever seen that is made from Greek people. I hope that after this explosion, other greek democoders start doing something (yes, emc, i'm looking at you :)). Personally i'll do but since that i hate a lot the Windoze GUI (even if i use it becuze i can't do else! i'm prisoned like all others) my prods will be for DOS, except if i get too bored and start programming with OpenGL where almost all things are ready for u (i don't like ready things but i'm 2 lazy to code them :)).
cya
Bad Sector /Nasty Bugs
cya
Bad Sector /Nasty Bugs
indeed the revival of the greek scene after so much time of inactivity and decomposition is a reason for enthusiasm for the greek sceners, but I still belive that Cadence&Cascade is a top quality demo by international standards, and I really enjoy watching it.
Well, I didn't want a bbs thread with every Greek scener parading in glory (although it might be a better place than in the ASD comments :), I wanted the macaw vs nuclear arguments to be stored somewhere and to come to some kind of conclusion. Sorry, but you guys are expressing WAY too much pride.. and isn't that one of the deadly sins? You keep saying "Greek scene" over and over, that to me is nationalism. Try to open yourselves up a bit more to the rest of the world. Partake in more global web sites, view more international releases and attend more international parties, and soon it won't seem like you're stuck behind a border. You need to build up a scene locally, but to me, the scene as a whole won't flourish if we're stuck with the idea of nation vs. nation.
Shifter has a point though, no one person is to blame (I won't blame anyone at all). After VIP and other similar parties, it seemed like "vive la france!" for a while.
Oh, and to clear things up, I do understand your position. You see, I'm an American, and if you haven't seen an American demo in a few years, that's no surprise, because there really haven't been any. While the country is large, the scene is so sparse and scattered that we have to refer to it as a "North American" scene, in conjunction with Canada, in order for it to be at all significant. After NAID '95, the first North American demoparty, we wrote all kinds of articles about it in DemoNews and other mags, but really just to express the experience, not for self-praise. Unfortunately, we've yet to make a serious comeback since '96 (ok, 12 demos at Coma2 last year, but nothing too great), and I've since retired from activity.
To sum up, I'm happy to see more activity in your part of the world. I hardly remember anything since the days of Gardening and Deus. But you shouldn't be spending your whole time patting yourselves on the back, because people who do that often get too lazy to do anything better. If it's attention you want, others will eventually notice you. And maybe if you paid more attention to the rest of the scene, rather than just yourselves, you could've returned to activity sooner. This lesson goes for my fellow Americans as well.
BTW I've seen C&C, I'll comment on it when I watch it a 2nd time :).
Shifter has a point though, no one person is to blame (I won't blame anyone at all). After VIP and other similar parties, it seemed like "vive la france!" for a while.
Oh, and to clear things up, I do understand your position. You see, I'm an American, and if you haven't seen an American demo in a few years, that's no surprise, because there really haven't been any. While the country is large, the scene is so sparse and scattered that we have to refer to it as a "North American" scene, in conjunction with Canada, in order for it to be at all significant. After NAID '95, the first North American demoparty, we wrote all kinds of articles about it in DemoNews and other mags, but really just to express the experience, not for self-praise. Unfortunately, we've yet to make a serious comeback since '96 (ok, 12 demos at Coma2 last year, but nothing too great), and I've since retired from activity.
To sum up, I'm happy to see more activity in your part of the world. I hardly remember anything since the days of Gardening and Deus. But you shouldn't be spending your whole time patting yourselves on the back, because people who do that often get too lazy to do anything better. If it's attention you want, others will eventually notice you. And maybe if you paid more attention to the rest of the scene, rather than just yourselves, you could've returned to activity sooner. This lesson goes for my fellow Americans as well.
BTW I've seen C&C, I'll comment on it when I watch it a 2nd time :).
well.. here is my opinion about the "fight" concerning the Greek scene.. the nationalism based messages and all this stuff..
I am active since 1992 and i somehow understand the enthusiasm about C&C. You know its like the awakening of the scene in this little part of the world..
Phoenix : you mentioned that there was no prods in the last years from greek groups.. well, thatswhy we are so happy something nice was produced this year..
I know that C&C is not THE demo (in worldwhide standards) but it is the spark that could start a fire...
Abd NO we don't look only the scene in Greece.. You should be at the partyplace.. We watched INTERNATIONAL demos over and over on the bigscreen.. and we learned .. and we started thinking if we could do something sommilar or even better..
There is no nationalism behind the messages for C&C.. just enthusiasm.. that's how i see it.
Alias Medron/Padua
I am active since 1992 and i somehow understand the enthusiasm about C&C. You know its like the awakening of the scene in this little part of the world..
Phoenix : you mentioned that there was no prods in the last years from greek groups.. well, thatswhy we are so happy something nice was produced this year..
I know that C&C is not THE demo (in worldwhide standards) but it is the spark that could start a fire...
Abd NO we don't look only the scene in Greece.. You should be at the partyplace.. We watched INTERNATIONAL demos over and over on the bigscreen.. and we learned .. and we started thinking if we could do something sommilar or even better..
There is no nationalism behind the messages for C&C.. just enthusiasm.. that's how i see it.
Alias Medron/Padua
I get your point phoenix (as for NAID.. After it, Dark Avenger (of Enigma/DDD) stayed at my house for about a week and told me everything about it).
I won't disagree that it might be nationalism here.. but sincerely, I don't have a problem with that. However, I don't see people trying to impose that hey.. we're the force that will rule the demoscene.. it's moreover like a cry of "Hey.. we exist too".
As for the International demoscene, we've been watching it closely. We've always been watching on these wondrous productions. The key point here is that noone among our scene believed that we would be able to produce something half as good as that. A.S.D. made the start and that's what we're celebrating. And from what I can see, it proves fruitful, as the greek demoscene is moving now. Here and there i see new groups getting formed, and enthousiasm.. that can only result into one thing.. more productions and that's what the main goal is.
I won't disagree that it might be nationalism here.. but sincerely, I don't have a problem with that. However, I don't see people trying to impose that hey.. we're the force that will rule the demoscene.. it's moreover like a cry of "Hey.. we exist too".
As for the International demoscene, we've been watching it closely. We've always been watching on these wondrous productions. The key point here is that noone among our scene believed that we would be able to produce something half as good as that. A.S.D. made the start and that's what we're celebrating. And from what I can see, it proves fruitful, as the greek demoscene is moving now. Here and there i see new groups getting formed, and enthousiasm.. that can only result into one thing.. more productions and that's what the main goal is.
my points weren't adressed to any particular scene member. my point was just that it seemed rather suspicious that all the persons who voted "this rules" had .gr email accounts (and most of them hadn't commented on any prior demos).
i partly understand the nationalism surrounding since there haven't been any greek demos worth mentioning (afaik). however saying a demo rules should be based on the actual demo, and not on the fact that the demo is a comeback for an entire country. i would never vote "this rules" on danish demos, unless i felt they were worth it!
after seeing the ADS demo which contained ripped music and incredibly bad chosen colours and quite a few bad 3d-scenes, i wouldn't consider this demo to be topknotch. however the demo shows some ok effects and some ok transitions - but imho. that's all.
and now, go flame me.
i partly understand the nationalism surrounding since there haven't been any greek demos worth mentioning (afaik). however saying a demo rules should be based on the actual demo, and not on the fact that the demo is a comeback for an entire country. i would never vote "this rules" on danish demos, unless i felt they were worth it!
after seeing the ADS demo which contained ripped music and incredibly bad chosen colours and quite a few bad 3d-scenes, i wouldn't consider this demo to be topknotch. however the demo shows some ok effects and some ok transitions - but imho. that's all.
and now, go flame me.
Hi all.
I don't believe there's any kind of nationalism going on between us Greek people. To me, when watching ASD's Cadence, which was The megademo of the event, it came like a "Wake the fsck up and create!" kind of message. The pink & silly thing is that I personally wanted to get involved in the scene years ago. So, I joined DebRis as a graphician, but that was for a short time, with only one production (Gamoto). Suddenly, everybody drove to their own way(between Patras, Athens, UK, the army, whatever), as it happens all the time. To other countries, it may not be the same, because there will be another demogroup to fill up the space. In Greece though, the quality groups can be enumerated almost at the average temperature of Nevrokopi, Greece (around 2°C; yes, it's a joke). Concluding (finally), that's why everybody in DN 2001 was and SHOULD BE overwhelmingly enthusiastic towards advancing the scene a bit. On the one hand, I agree to the internationalisation of the scene mentioned a few messages ago, but I'd also love to see two or three Greek groups originated and producing stuff. To quote aMUSiC a second time, "Hey, we exist too".
greetz,
cybernoid / digital nexus web design
I don't believe there's any kind of nationalism going on between us Greek people. To me, when watching ASD's Cadence, which was The megademo of the event, it came like a "Wake the fsck up and create!" kind of message. The pink & silly thing is that I personally wanted to get involved in the scene years ago. So, I joined DebRis as a graphician, but that was for a short time, with only one production (Gamoto). Suddenly, everybody drove to their own way(between Patras, Athens, UK, the army, whatever), as it happens all the time. To other countries, it may not be the same, because there will be another demogroup to fill up the space. In Greece though, the quality groups can be enumerated almost at the average temperature of Nevrokopi, Greece (around 2°C; yes, it's a joke). Concluding (finally), that's why everybody in DN 2001 was and SHOULD BE overwhelmingly enthusiastic towards advancing the scene a bit. On the one hand, I agree to the internationalisation of the scene mentioned a few messages ago, but I'd also love to see two or three Greek groups originated and producing stuff. To quote aMUSiC a second time, "Hey, we exist too".
greetz,
cybernoid / digital nexus web design
it might be the best GREEK demo of the year (alltime?), but it sure as hell ain't the best INTERNATIONAL demo this year.
That's your opinion macaw, and mine too for that matter. Others think otherwise, though. We state our opinion here and make an argument. There is no reason to get hostile. New people discovering the scene will read our comments, download the demo, watch it and form an opinion of their own. I don't see anything bad in this. Besides, everyone should watch not-so-cool demos. That's the only way to appreciate really-cool demos. That's the way to come up with a better production the next time :-)
As for nationalism, ok, we feel a little pride seeing a good demo made from Greeks, but that's it. We watch other demos as well, and we like them too. Most of us would like to attend parties held in Europe, but it's not the same to travel from Greece to Finland (for example) as to travel from Belgium/France to Finland... The distance is about two times more... :-) Thank god for pouet, scene.org and ojuice, for we can get in touch with the scene in the rest of the world within a few clicks...
And I have to say, that Greeks have not yet come to the point of putting a Greek flag in their demos as many early Finish demos did back in the nineties! ;-PP
As for nationalism, ok, we feel a little pride seeing a good demo made from Greeks, but that's it. We watch other demos as well, and we like them too. Most of us would like to attend parties held in Europe, but it's not the same to travel from Greece to Finland (for example) as to travel from Belgium/France to Finland... The distance is about two times more... :-) Thank god for pouet, scene.org and ojuice, for we can get in touch with the scene in the rest of the world within a few clicks...
And I have to say, that Greeks have not yet come to the point of putting a Greek flag in their demos as many early Finish demos did back in the nineties! ;-PP
The point, macaw, is that it's the first serious greek demo production after a loooong time, and personally, I liked it. I didn't say it's the best out there, and I frankly don't care. The fact that this demo is reaching (at least) international standards and it's not a 'yet-another-dozen-of-effects-piled-up-and-produced-on-a-sunday-evening' kind of demo, makes me at least proud.
Take care,
cybernoid
Take care,
cybernoid
yeah, those sindot flags! we need those in demos again! (or is that against this stupid cncd dogma?)
Greek scene sucks.
