What's your view on stock resources in scene demos?
category: general [glöplog]
What is the general stance on using stock graphics, 3d objects, music or footage in scene demos?
The average scener doesnt have the resources to perform motion capture yet it would be nice to see in a demo, even if it is created by a non-scener.
Also there might be groups who don't have a decent graphics dude and could use some stock textures and so on.
At one time it would be called ripping, whether the source was credited or not, but the scene today seems more tolerant of this kind of thing.
Was the dancing man animation from The Popular Demo a stock object?
The average scener doesnt have the resources to perform motion capture yet it would be nice to see in a demo, even if it is created by a non-scener.
Also there might be groups who don't have a decent graphics dude and could use some stock textures and so on.
At one time it would be called ripping, whether the source was credited or not, but the scene today seems more tolerant of this kind of thing.
Was the dancing man animation from The Popular Demo a stock object?
Lot's of demos use stock resources like that fr demo with stock photos, fairlight 64kb intros, aenima's animations...
no, it wasn't, afaik.
other than that, i guess if it can be done without access to special resources (i.e. motion capture lab), then stealing it is considered lame, i guess. having no graphics dude is no reason for ripping, unless it makes sense (i.e. ripping quake 1 level textures in a quake 1 parody demo).
in general, i don't think much changed. producing demo ingredients has become more accessible, rather than less (though maybe standards increased too, but that's no excuse for ripping).
other than that, i guess if it can be done without access to special resources (i.e. motion capture lab), then stealing it is considered lame, i guess. having no graphics dude is no reason for ripping, unless it makes sense (i.e. ripping quake 1 level textures in a quake 1 parody demo).
in general, i don't think much changed. producing demo ingredients has become more accessible, rather than less (though maybe standards increased too, but that's no excuse for ripping).
If it's in public domain and you credit the original, why not?
It's all about getting away with it. Good luck!
(public domain or has a proper license, that is)
Depends on what it's used for, and how much is ripped, to me at least. If the concept is ripped from the latest advert, the objects came free with your (probably ripped :) 3d app, and the textures of from that dubovic guy, then yeah it's pretty lame. If you used some stock footage to apply your wicked effect to, rather than using the old usb1 web cam and having shaky, grainy, jerky crap then fine.
I'd say though that standards for a compo should be higher, and standards for the top compos should be even higher still. Personally I'd try and avoid any ripped materials at all for a decent compo entry, but happily abuse them for a quick fun prod.
I'd say though that standards for a compo should be higher, and standards for the top compos should be even higher still. Personally I'd try and avoid any ripped materials at all for a decent compo entry, but happily abuse them for a quick fun prod.
Ripping is not wrong as long as your grafician sucks :D
Motion capture -can- be done with very few resources, even if not the quality of proffesional motion capture. What do you need? Two webcams?
By other hand, I like the concept of a "demoscene trashcan", a place to put things (mainly songs and images/textures) that we don't care others use in their prods (maybe in exchange of being credited in the prod)...
In my own case, I don't care at all about others using any of my stuff, no matter if it is with or without credit, with or without asking first and no matter even if it is used for commercial purposes. (The only thing I would not like is somebody registering any of my stuff and then not allowing me tu use it)
Also I've thought that one day I should do a photographic textures pack... but it is not an easy task...
By other hand, I like the concept of a "demoscene trashcan", a place to put things (mainly songs and images/textures) that we don't care others use in their prods (maybe in exchange of being credited in the prod)...
In my own case, I don't care at all about others using any of my stuff, no matter if it is with or without credit, with or without asking first and no matter even if it is used for commercial purposes. (The only thing I would not like is somebody registering any of my stuff and then not allowing me tu use it)
Also I've thought that one day I should do a photographic textures pack... but it is not an easy task...
My 7 AM, tired, only had time for one cup of tea, have to go to work as soon as the phone rings, rambling 2 cents:
Generally, using stock material for anything is OK. That's the whole purpose of stock material to begin with, isn't it? Collage methods, sampling etc. have been a part of the arsenal of artists of all fields for ages, but somehow we're stuck with hastily branding things as "ripping". (Of course, there's a difference between creative applications of recycled material and blatant timbalanding.)
Then again, we are sceners, and when it comes to 3D models, music or such, anyone of us should know someone who is able and willing to provide fresh, original content.
I'd say using original resources should be considered the ideal - to a rational point, of course, there's no point in, say, going to China if you need a photo of the Great Wall - but also that lack of time or access shouldn't be allowed to compromise the end result in cases where there's a clear vision of what's required, if that vision can be fulfilled by using stock material.
Generally, using stock material for anything is OK. That's the whole purpose of stock material to begin with, isn't it? Collage methods, sampling etc. have been a part of the arsenal of artists of all fields for ages, but somehow we're stuck with hastily branding things as "ripping". (Of course, there's a difference between creative applications of recycled material and blatant timbalanding.)
Then again, we are sceners, and when it comes to 3D models, music or such, anyone of us should know someone who is able and willing to provide fresh, original content.
I'd say using original resources should be considered the ideal - to a rational point, of course, there's no point in, say, going to China if you need a photo of the Great Wall - but also that lack of time or access shouldn't be allowed to compromise the end result in cases where there's a clear vision of what's required, if that vision can be fulfilled by using stock material.
There's a difference between using what is generally called stock-material (collections of made-to-be-reused material) and sampling.
Interesting response. I remember how "oldschoolers" would give everyone hell if they used any kind of external resource and I remember graphicians insisting they must not take a single pixel from outside their screen or use any kind of filter effect and as a musician you used riffs very cautiously.
That's a really harsh attitude for an unpaid hobby I think and it's good to see attitudes changing. It's sad to think that a great coder is being held back because he's waiting on graphics, or a talented team can't show off their skills because they lack 3d skills.
That's a really harsh attitude for an unpaid hobby I think and it's good to see attitudes changing. It's sad to think that a great coder is being held back because he's waiting on graphics, or a talented team can't show off their skills because they lack 3d skills.
Good artists borrow, great artists steal.
YUO AER RIPPING THSI TOPIC!!!http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=319&page=1&x=37&y=11
so he ripped his own topic. whatever.
Sampling/ripping was generally accepted in oldskool demos/hip-hop. What mattered was whether the end result felt new/fresh or like a copy of something else. And that's still my attitude.
cruzer: what's your opinion on Nelly Furtado's song 'Do It'? I think it's quite fresh!
This topic is chewed out like 80s Hubbabubba.
This topic is chewed out like 80s Hubbabubba.
Like trolling in general.
Unseen: haha, oh yeah I'd been so busy being Syphus I'd forgotten I'm meant to be wade as well. :D
You spend a lot of time on Pouet analysing threads don't you?
You spend a lot of time on Pouet analysing threads don't you?
okkie: "Do It" is not hip hop, and therefore it's not ok. :) Seriously, I think it's fine to sample short sequences from tunes and loop them like they used to do in hip hop, which created a totally new tune, and it's the same if you lend a short clip or a still frame from a movie in a demo. OTOH if you ripped the whole movie and just added a rotating torus in the corner and called it a demo it would be lame, and the same applies to ripping a complete SID tune and just add a singer on top of it. And it doesn't even sound fresh to me.
There's still something called "Fair use" :P
